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What are the most suitable boards/sails/wetsuits...

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dro
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Post by dro »

me again still working hard for my third good boy star

head somwhat clearer than last posting but still pleased with result

Anyway serious question

Thinking of buying a smaller sail in case "too much wind" something that seems to happen to me much more than the rest of you (or so it seems).

Quite a few 4.5 to 5m seem to be cropping up on ebay but many of them require a "constant curve mast"

What is a constant curve mast? and does it matter?

Thanks Huw
What do you mean not ENOUGH wind ?
kelvin
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Post by kelvin »

Cor blimey mate you want the in/outs of a cows a***!
dont worry about what it means if you mast is under 5yrs old its ok .
if your buying a small sail the important thing is the correct mast to go with that sail.
i.e I use Gastra sails they dont have adj heads so if the recomended lenth is 430 they aint going to rig on a longer mast .
Again this depends on the brand sailworks have adjustable heads so you could get away with it on them .
Minefeild or what ?
forget dreaming "its time to loop"
kel www.winsurfing.co.uk
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dro
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great

Post by dro »

thanks for quick reply Kevin

Not absolutely certain what you advise!!

But what the hell I'll go for it anyway.

Mast less than 5 yrs and 430 size so should be o.k. for everything

At least I think that's what you mean ?

Hope you enjoyed the game

Huw

P.S
is this cows a*** sail better than the other makes and what size mast should I shove up it ??

Thanks yet again for your interest
What do you mean not ENOUGH wind ?
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MartinF
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Post by MartinF »

Huw, most fairly recent (last 3 years) sails of 4.5m - 5m would fit on either a 400cm or 430cm mast respectively. Those sail sizes are round about the crossover point between the two mast sizes for a number of manufacturers & sail ranges.

You may have difficulty fitting a 4.5m sail onto a 430 mast - the mast might just be too long. You'll just have to check the specs on the ads on eBay. And if they don't give any specs, email the seller to ask for the details.

Also, I suspect you'd get far more use out of a 5m sail than a 4.5m

What other sail size(s) do you have?
dro wrote:is this cows a*** sail better than the other makes and what size mast should I shove up it ??
I would leave that to a vet - they seem to reckon on one arm's length?

What's brown & comes steaming out of Cowes?
It's an ill wind that never blows at all.
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dro
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thanks Martin

Post by dro »

very useful

Sail sizes
neil pryde 5.7 nice sail
bic 6.7 find it a struggle to get it on mast

so what next?

remember wind strength very different for me compared with the rest of you
What do you mean not ENOUGH wind ?
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Post by kelvin »

So what next ?
hmmm think you be ok with a 5m looking at what you got at mo ,
wouldnt bother going any smaller yet as conditions get pretty extreme when the 4.5m comes out .
most newish 4.5m also set on 400 masts!

So what 5m you want ? fancy ?
forget dreaming "its time to loop"
kel www.winsurfing.co.uk
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Graham_U
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Post by Graham_U »

It could be worth taking a trip to Bris Windy World or other shops. I was in at the end of Nov., and came a way with a 4.7 NP NR for £50ish, which is competitive with eBay for a newish sail, especially if you add postage and then the hassle factor. This was about a 2002/3 but had seen some wear, but at least I could see it, and Neil is great for advice and suggestions, even if he's normally looking to sell new kit.

An adjustable head does help with the rigging options but you can not alway guaranteed. My two Tush Storms are different even though the same age and model, the 6.5 is fixed head, where as the 5.5 is adjustable.
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dro
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very reasonable

Post by dro »

looking at prices sails finally go for on ebay ,that £50 2003 sail sounds very reasonable

Seems no option but to visit son no. two in Bristol and pop into shop
Amazingly he has been there 3 yrs and last time I took him back i showed him the map for windsurfing shop.
He the took me for a trip round Bristol but no sign of shop

Next time I will carry the map together with the passport,water purifing tabs and gold coins to bribe the natives that I allways carry in foreign lands.(If they were good enough for Biggles then they will do for me)

Popped into garage yesterday to see how techno was doing .Still sleeping soundly though i did notice a few of the lettuce leaves had been eaten.
I just hope she does not lose too much weight during the hibernation cos if she gets too small for uphauling i'm in big trouble.

Do you think it is safe to wake her?

Also feeling a lot better after Saturday and thinking of returning to lagerland again.(just in case you were all worried)

If I do not get a red star soon my fingers will wear down to nothing.
OR more accurately my finger will wear down to nothing

Huw
What do you mean not ENOUGH wind ?
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dro
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Yippee

Post by dro »

Three beautiful red stars what a proud boy am I

Everone in south wales will be thrilled

Thank you Bristolnomads

Just like Xmas and birthday rolled into one

Huw
What do you mean not ENOUGH wind ?
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Post by kelvin »

get the techno out of hibernation !
looks like a blow thurs throught to sun
mainly westry directions
forget dreaming "its time to loop"
kel www.winsurfing.co.uk
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dro
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well well well

Post by dro »

Forum very quiet I notice (with exception of Kelvin)
Clearly reaction to the Englad /Wales and England /France (rugby game Martin) has hit hard.
Be brave "mes amis"we who live on this side of the Severn bridge suffered these harrowing times for many years and still came out smiling.

Can not be any other reason surely!

Anywat
have been busy bidding away on Ebay for last 6/52
Every time lose out at last minute or prices go through roof

SO
last 2 weeks have bid for every bloody sail between 4.7 and 5.2

Surpise surprise, suddenly owner of two 5 m sails

not arrived yet and in mild panic regarding how to pay and contact seller etc.

Anyway i think I have a Neil Pryde 5m world cup race sail (most important information it's purple)
and a 5 m Gun race sail (pink)
No idea what they are like but clearly will have to change colour of wet suit and dye my hair so there is no colour clash when next I hit the water

Have not told the techno yet (still sleeping)

Huw

P.S.
Good luck against Italy
What do you mean not ENOUGH wind ?
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Post by Graham_U »

Pink or Purple with Blue and Orange logos, nice.......... :? No wonder you've not told your Techno :lol:

lots of people use tools to bid on eBay, that makes multiple bids in the last minute. I think the key is to decide what your max bid is an stick to it. I will only buy things I think are bargains. If you bid last minute, its gives others less time to think, but I tend to be too lazy, and so just put my bid in when I see something, if I win it fine, if not so what.

Also be weary when biding for multiple things, but I guess you know that already. :shock:
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dro
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new arrivals

Post by dro »

well well they both finally arrived and with minimal problems
Both worn but otherwise in reasonable nick (as advertised)

BUT

They both have these plastic lumps in zipped pockets near where the mast should be
I presume they are "cams" but what the h*** are they for and what do I do with them (clean answers only please)

Look forward to yet more informed advice from the gang

Huw

P.S.
Got very excited last week when I saw trip to Cwm carn and started polishing the bike so it would not be embarrassed to be in the company of such fine steeds that seem to carry the Bristolnomads over the mountains

But then while trying to cut down my antisocial Leylandii (no idea how to spell but those nasty big fast growing trees) which suddenly had grown to sky scraper height I fell off and injured my shoulder

Yet again my appologies for not joining you all after coming all the way over the bridge.
Glad you all enjoyed
What do you mean not ENOUGH wind ?
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Re: new arrivals

Post by MartinF »

dro wrote:They both have these plastic lumps in zipped pockets near where the mast should be
I presume they are "cams" but what the h*** are they for and what do I do with them (clean answers only please)

Look forward to yet more informed advice from the gang.
Ahhh - you said you'd bought race sails, didn't you? Well, race sails have camber inducers. Although most race sails of that size don't have them any more - gone out of fashion.

So you're going to be in for some happy times trying to stick the mast up the sails (technical term).

Camber/sleep-inducer tutorial...

Camber inducers (cams) were developed to give the sail's leading edge a more aerodynamic profile on the windward side. RAF (Rotational Aeorofoil Sails - ie: the "old-fashioned" name for standard, typical, rotational sails, which almost all sails are now) sails took care of improving the air flow on the high pressure (leeward) side of the sail only, leaving a mast-shaped discontinuity on the windward side.

Cammed sails may have one, two, or many cams. I have an old Tushingham 7.4m Series 7 with 5 camber inducers - though that's a bit extreme.

Cams fit onto the mast end of the battens, within the luff tube, where batten tension forces the cam to sit on the mast, which in turn induces camber in the front 1/3 of the sail.

Cams, the pros:
  • Sails are better balanced, and more difficult to overpower.
    They are more stable - the centre of effort doesn't move around as much.
    They are better behaved in overpowered conditions.
    They are (were) faster than rotational sails.
The cons:
  • They will eventually rub away all the epoxy and carbon fibre where they are in contact with the mast.
    They can be a dog to rig up.
    They can be a dog to rotate after changing tack (you may need to give the sail a good pump (or even a kick) to get the battens to rotate round to the correct side for the new tack)
    They can be a dog to waterstart or even to uphaul as the wide luff tube holds millions of gallons of water
    They need huge amounts of downhaul (and more or less no, or even slightly negative, outhaul)
    It can be more difficult to "feel" where the wind is coming from as there's always so much camber in the sail.
    The sail always drives because of the induced camber. So when you're uphauling, the sail starts to power up immediately (if you can get it out of the water)
Background info:
I suspect the NP sail has "batcam" batten tensioners - lumps of grey plastic on the leech end of the battens, probably held down with a spring steel clip apiece. To remove the batten tension, break most of your fingernails trying to slide the spring clip forward so you can then break any remaining fingernails trying to pry the batcam up, off the batten. NP supplied their sails with a batcam opening tool, but I'd be surprised if that's been passed into your possession. A wide-bladed screwdriver will do the trick. Once you've pried open the batcam, a) the tension is off the batten and b) the batten end is exposed. NP have a screw-in batten end piece which is used to fine-tune batten tension. When tensioned, there should be no creases at all across the batten pockets toward the front of the sail.

I have no idea what the Gun sail batten tensioners may be like.

To sleeve the mast:
You may need to remove the batten tension from the cammed battens to get the mast up the luff tube. Try first of all with the battens tensioned. If that doesn't work, de-tension the battens.
  1. Unzip the luff tube pockets to give you access to the cams.
  2. Slide the mast up the luff tube, ensuring the cams are seated properly on the mast. You may need to help/manoever the cams here.
  3. As the mast goes all the way up, some or all of the cams will pop off the mast.
  4. Start again.
  5. And again.
  6. Now get someone else to hold the cams in place. Preferably someone with 3 arms.
  7. Once the mast is sleeved all the way, if all the cams are still in place, there will be a large amount of camber in the sail, just behind the luff tube.
  8. Very gingerly, shove the mast extension in and give it just enough tension to hold the sail in place
  9. Very gingerly, clamp the boom in place, and apply a little outhaul tension
  10. One or more of the cams will now pop off. Go back to b).
  11. With your 3-armed assistant holding the cams in place, increase downhaul tension.
  12. All the cams will now pop off again. Go back to b)
After multiple iterations of the above, you'll have a beautiful-looking sail, but the sun has now set and owls are hooting.

How much downhaul tension you need to apply depends on the sail & the wind strength (and your strength), but it will certainly be far more than you think possible. Ideally, the leech will need to be floppy down to the 2nd or 3rd batten from the top.

I do hope this hasn't put you off :twisted:

In truth, cammed sails are great to use, simply because they are so stable.

I've given a worse-case scenario above. You may find your new sails rig like a dream. I hope so.
dro wrote:But then while trying to cut down my antisocial Leylandii (no idea how to spell but those nasty big fast growing trees) which suddenly had grown to sky scraper height I fell off and injured my shoulder
Sorry to hear about the shoulder, Huw. Nothing too bad, I trust? You'll need strong shoulders to get enough downhaul on those sails. :wink:
It's an ill wind that never blows at all.
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MartinF
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Post by MartinF »

Just noticed an interesting comment about cammed sails by zero303 in his post here - http://www.bristolnomads.org.uk/phpBB/v ... ?p=862#862
It's an ill wind that never blows at all.
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