Techno nose jobs & Jez's Knobs

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Graham_U
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Post by Graham_U » Mon Jan 10, 2005 18:42

Managed to get out on the Cotwolds Lake on Friday. Choose to use my 5.5 which was a mistake as I struggled to get going and it would not hold me through the lulls, while the other lads were planning straight through on their 6.5m.

It got even worst when the wind picked up, as the sail had not been holding my weight up to then I was not fully committing to the harness, so you can guess what happened next. Big blow, accelerated like hell, and over the front I went, ended up the other side of the boom, one of the lads has it on Video. A classic how not to.

Unfortunately as I had the front foot in the strap at the time, the mast swung round and hit somewhere on the side of the nose, having slide down the Jez nob. Which has been substantially re-arranged (again). Time for major epoxy surgery. It ain't going to look very pretty by the time I'm finished. Maybe its just as well I'd not picked up the new board yet.

Anyone have any ideas how to strengthen the nose? I've got some significant cracks 2 about 4 inches on the Gel-coat, and a couple holes on the top. So by the time I've dug that all out there going to be an option for inserting something to strengthen it. It seem that the Techno nose is particularly weak to a "side-swipe".
Graham

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Ian Long
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Post by Ian Long » Tue Jan 11, 2005 07:47

Oh no, poor Techno :cry: Alas the Techno is my no means unique in that respect, most modern boards, Starboards included are now very thin and consequently, weak in the nose.

As far as how to repair it, I'm not the man to ask, but once the repair is completed, if you are not fussy about appearance, I would recommend the approach taken by a large number of hire centers. They often glue closed cell foam (such as Karrimat foam) onto the nose of the board to help with the cushioning. Starboard even make a foam rim available as an option on some of their Carve boards, so that you can have foam that colour codes the board.

The club does have a board repair kit available for members (on a you replace what you use basis). It has all manner of goodies in it for board repair. This repair kit lives in the van, so attends as many away days as I do should you ever need it.
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H.S.P.C.T.

Post by dro » Tue Jan 11, 2005 09:15

I am becoming increasingly worried about the regular reporting of broken noses on all those poor technos and feel thet the time has come for responsible people to stand up and be counted.

Therfore I have set up the H.S.P.C.T i.e. Huw's society for the protection of Technos and have prepared a code of conduct for their owners.

Remember a Techno is not just for Xmas
Think of it as a member of the family and treat with rspect.
Do not place them in positions of potential harm without a full risk assesment

AND as I stated in a previous article a Techno really should hibernate over winter and therfore should not be forced into cold water and assaulted about it's nose


In conclusion to ensure the safety of Britain's technos especially the young (under 6 yrs) I have set up a risk register and contacted all repair centres to contact me if there is any suggestion of techno abuse occuring.

Thank you for your time and attention.Together we can ensure the safety and happiness of these beautiful windsurfers and eradicate these Techno abusers from this clean and pleasant sea

Yours Technically

Her Director
What do you mean not ENOUGH wind ?

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Post by NeilB » Tue Jan 11, 2005 09:50

I've cracked the nose of almost every board I've owned except the techno - reason? probably because as soon as the wind is strong I don't use it.
For a while I had a large lump of foam plastic duct taped to the nose of a previous board. Not quite a ugly as it sounds since you can buy duct tape in various colours to match the board. Pipe insulation foam tubes might work quite well as edge protection - sliced open and glued/taped around edges.
Other advice? Avoid lakes - always gusty (and very cold in winter).
Neil

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Post by Graham_U » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:44

Come on Neil, you know I'm a few years behind you in my Windsurfing development and so need regular outings. From where we work, there no option but the lake if I want to got on a flexed Friday afternoon. Even you were a member there once.

If you remember the damaged I did last time, well this is about twice as big. Dro - that one was done mid summer, so hibernation is not a guarantee, actually I think my Techno has enjoyed its outing recently, especially watching me as it dumps me in the cold water. Funny I went through my first year without a scratch on it.

As far as I can make out most of the repair I made last time stood up well, its the not filled bits that have creaked. Hence I was asking for Ideas about strengthening the nose, rather than just protecting it. I read an article in Boards about using those sausage swimming adds as nose protectors and was fully intending to add this, one I'd done some form of repair. As the board is old I was not going to bother making it look pretty, although I was hoping for a little more than Duck Tape.

I was wondering about

a. Some some form of insert to strengthen the nose.

b. Wrapping some fiberglass tap round the nose once filled. As this bit is out of the water it should not interfere with the sailing, so long as I don't add too much weight to the nose. But to do this I'd ideally need some tape that already had some adhesive, to hold it in place, before I epox'ed it. Anyone know if such item exists.
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Ian Long
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Post by Ian Long » Tue Jan 11, 2005 13:43

Technos should never be imprisoned over winter!! :-0 :evil: I shall be calling Amnesty International if I hear of any further abuses. :roll:

You could always use stick the foam protection to the board by applying it onto a coat of wet epoxy.

While the extra strength of some epoxy tap round the nose (btw, I think just wetting the the tape with epoxy as you apply it would be sufficiently sticky) will make the repair stronger, more ding resistant and prevent the seams from splitting. I think you would be better off trying to absorb the impact with foam, although neither is going to withstand a monster catapult.

****TIP TOP to avoid catapult damage**** As you start to feel that you are losing the battle with the unstoppable forward force, go with it. Sheet in very hard with your back hand. This will power up the sail even further causing it to rotate and land down wind of the board, missing the nose. Your trajectory will also accelerate, which throws you further round from the nose of the board clear of both board and rig. This is one of those tips that is all very well on paper but very hard to put in practice, particularly as sheeting in is the last thing you really want to do when it all goes horribly wrong. Try it, it works (and will be great practice for when you move onto forward loops :? )
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Post by Graham_U » Tue Jan 11, 2005 15:58

Got the theory on that one Ian, not sure about the practice. I've managed to avoid being catapulted most of the year since I broke the nose in the summer. I think it was as much a set of circumstances that piled against me. I don't remember the exact details but I think it was the actions of going for the rear strap but missing that killed me as my back foot flies up in the air, which unfortunately meant that the sail (with me attached) swivelled forward through my front foot in the strap before I followed the sail over the boom.

So this time I'm going for the works on the repair, foam protect and some tape round the nose. Function over Form in this case. With the Jez nob in place, it seems to be the "side swipe that does the damage, and the foam protection is unlikely to stop those hits, unless I fit it on the rails? I think this could empact the sailing? I guess it starts to question if the Jez has any real purpose.

At one stage I was seriously considering cutting the nose off, as I've never really needed at my level of sailing. I saw one like that in Turkey. But then if I ever get good enought to sail with you guys, then I guess it actually has a job to do.
Graham

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Techno nose jobs & Jez's Knobs

Post by MartinF » Tue Jan 11, 2005 19:09

Graham_U wrote:With the Jez nob in place, it seems to be the "side swipe that does the damage, and the foam protection is unlikely to stop those hits, unless I fit it on the rails?
Unless you have a very odd shaped mast, it just isn't possible for it to strike the rails whilst still plugged-in to the board. It will strike the deck just above the rails, which can crack all the way down the rails as well as the decking. Depending upon the height of your boom, there's a very remote possibility of your boom clamp striking the rail. As a test, set up your rig as normal on the Techno, lay the rig down & see if the boom clears the nose/rails. If it doesn't, then use a boom bra when sailing.

The only sensible solution is to pad the area around the nose & the upper rails with foam, as Ian suggests. As dense a foam as poss (something like bedroll from a camping shop is good & inexpensive) to absorb an impact.

As for the repair - you're not worried about cosmetics, so dig out as much of the damaged skin as poss. A large hole is much easier to repair than a small one. Use a really sharp Stanley blade to leave a straight edge of skin a few inches back from the nose. Try to leave the foam core intact. Feather/bevel the edge of the skin.

Epoxy resin by itself has no great strength, but when applied to woven carbon fibre or even fibreglass, it produces enormous strength. I'd guess there were originally only one, max two, layers of glass around your nose. If you were to lay up 2 layers of carbon fibre interleaved with 2 layers of fiberglass, you'll probably never break it again, though it may crack at the join with the old skin. Better still would be Kevlar, but it's v. expensive & impossible to cut. Simply lay each layer of the top of the previous layer. Don't need to wait for each layer to cure.

If you want to make really strong join with the old skin, the rub down a strip about 1" wide along the edge of the existing skin, before laying-up the cloth. Lay-up the cloth as described. When cured, rub down a 1" width of the new repair. Then lay down 2 layers of 2" wide glass or carbon fibre to span the join.

If you're worried about longevity, then you'll need to cover the repair - epoxy resin is sensitive to UV light & will become brittle over time. Acrylic car spray cans are good enough for what you want, but rub the repaired surface down with 120grit wet & dry first to give a good key for the paint, else it'll flake off.
Graham_U wrote:I think this could empact the sailing? I guess it starts to question if the Jez has any real purpose.
Jez's knobs do 2 things: They crush masts & rip mast tracks out. The forces involved during a catapult so low down on the mast are huge. A ripped out masttrack is a very serious repair - if possible at all. A crushed mast is very expensive to replace. But a multiply-damaged Techno nose has little intrinsic value & is relatively easy to repair.
Graham_U wrote:But then if I ever get good enought to sail with you guys, ...
Stop running yourself down. You are good enough to sail with "us guys", & it would benefit you no end from the amount of help & assistance you'd get. NeilB is right - inland water, particularly Cotswold Water Park, is gusty as hell. And you know what happens in really gusty conditions? You tend to get catapulted a lot :!:
It's an ill wind that never blows at all.

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Post by NeilB » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:16

The lake is fine for practicing many skills but not much of a place for high wind planing in straps. I never got as far as foot straps on the lake. For strapped in planing, one poole/portland trip will do more than many trips to the lake.
Mind you if you master this on the lake you'll be great at poole or portland.

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Post by Graham_U » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:27

Thanks guys,

I've not found exactly what happened this time, but last time the boom clamp with bra hit the joint of the deck and the rail. I know because:
1- there was a big blue mark on the boom-bra,
2- the was a circular indentation about an inch and a half on the joint.

However the damage then, as now is more the shock through the nose has cracked the deck in places on the other side and split the gelcoat on the hull length-ways.

I already have fiber glass tape and matting as well as expoxy from last time. I got from Wetn'Windy, but getting hold of other stuff like Kelvar I guess needs specialist shops.
Graham

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Post by kelvin » Thu Jan 13, 2005 23:44

"Also Techno,s where not famed for their nose strenth on release and most owners who had them this way smashed the noses in , when I picked my Mistral Flow up from repair from blue chip previosly (yes wrecked one of them as well) he told me he was doing at least 3 techno noses a week . "

above from a previous discussion Techno noses prior to Dro making the big decision
forget dreaming "its time to loop"
kel www.winsurfing.co.uk

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Post by Graham_U » Fri Jan 14, 2005 17:27

I don't think there were any of us Techno fans who didn't warn that the major down side was the weekness of the nose. But as Neil has proven, and he's a much better windsurfer than I, its not a problem unique to the Techno, but it is one it specialise in.

I wonder if its made to look worst by the fact that its about the most common board around, and its very popular with people like me that are trying to move on to new things, and so more likely to loose it big time.

Still like sailing it though and have promised to get it back on the water.
Graham

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Post by Graham_U » Mon Jan 17, 2005 13:37

Well the worst is over, lots of fiberglass, filler and Epoxy everywhere, and it looks a mess, but at least there are no more holes or splits. It was quite frightening when I saw the mess left after I cut away the damage :shock:

Also still trying to find one of these swimming sausage/spaghetti things to slice into some form of protection, but other than a final sand and the paint work, its done. I'm still trying to decide whether to put a loop of fiber tap round the nose for added strength, and probably to hold the whole lot in. Even now if it blows, it can be used.
Graham

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Post by Graham_U » Fri Feb 11, 2005 13:23

Well the new look Cyrano de Concorde Techno with its bulging nose bumper was safely relaunched yesterday and its still goes well. Even took one small hit on the nose with no problem. IT ain't pretty, but I still like it.

Biggest problem was pilot's lack of confidence given its a month since last sail and what happen. The new baby Techno is still safely sat in the nice warm house posing for warmer weather.
Graham

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